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Mighty Line Minute with Dave Tabar - Talking Safety Codes & Standards, Music, and Business Innovation

National Fire Escape Association (Interview)

June 24, 2024 • Dave Tabar / Francisco Meneses • Season 1 • Episode 26

0:00 | 6:33

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Dave interviews "Cisco" Meneses, the Founder of the National Fire Escape Association at the NFPA 2024 Convention & Expo. Cisco explains why fire escapes must be inspected by registered design professionals, repaired, and inspectors trained. He further explains why inspections of all fire escapes should be required to be conducted "every 5 years" in all applicable fire and building codes.

Read the fire escape safety blog

In this episode of the Mighty Line Minute, host Dave Tabar engages in an enlightening conversation with Cisco, the 'Fire Escape Guy' and founder of the National Fire Escape Association. This discussion sheds light on the crucial aspects of fire escape safety in urban environments, the common oversight of these essential pathways, and actionable steps to ensure their functionality and safety. Cisco shares insights from the National Fire Escape Association about the importance of regular inspections and maintenance to prevent catastrophic failures. Join us as we delve into the steps property owners and city officials can take to prioritize safety and compliance in their buildings. Listen now to equip yourself with the knowledge needed to advocate for safer fire escape routes in your community.

Fire escape safety refers to the practices and regulations aimed at ensuring the functionality, accessibility, and reliability of fire escapes in buildings. This encompasses regular inspections, maintenance, and compliance with safety codes to prevent blockages, structural failures, or other hazards that could impede a safe exit during emergencies. Proper fire escape safety is crucial in urban settings where buildings are closely spaced and the rapid evacuation of occupants can be challenging during fires or other disasters.

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Ep. 26 National Fire Escape Association (Interview)

Hello everyone. This is Dave with Mighty Line Minute, and I've got a great show today. We've got the Founder of the National Fire Escape Association, "Cisco" with us today. He's going to tell you things that you haven't heard about before, and you're going to learn some things that you need to know, not just you as a listener, but everyone. And this is the guy known as The Fire Escape Guy. Again, the Founder, Cisco. Good to see you today. Educate folks about what you do and what you've done and what the world needs to know.

Sure. If you're on Tik Tok, go to Fire Escape Guy, and you're going to see us walking all over the country, up to a fire escape and say, "Is this safe?" And we'll tell you whether it's safe on the moment and on the spot, and using 98 percent of everything I look at, fails when we inspect. That's because fire escapes haven't been looked at for over 75 years. The law in the country just came up borrowed now in 2022.

Why, why is it taking so long? I mean what's with this, we all see fire escapes?

So right now, we're here at the NFPA [Convention and Expo], 'cause they've been around for a long time, since 1927. Their [Code] says the authority having jurisdiction shall accept by load tests or other evidence is strength, but they don't say how many years you're supposed to repeat this! So, they really rely on the owners of properties to do the right thing. And guess what they do right all the time? They collect rent. Guess what they don't do right all the time? Fix a window, fix a sink and fix their fire escapes. So we put it out there through Tik Tok and also here at the National Fire Protection Association [Expo] to help change the laws. And we've had a great effect nationwide, and for the NFPA to just add to their [Code], "every five years." Otherwise, if you go on Tik Tok, and I do from Seattle to San Diego, Chicago, to Texas, and from Maine to Florida. I walk up to everybody's fire escape and I just say, “Hey, is this safe?” and I prove that it's not safe. It hasn't been kept painted and it's not structurally sound.

So I'm from Cleveland, do you get into Cleveland? What do you find there?

I've taught classes. I've taught classes in Cleveland. Right? And I've taught a fire escape awareness class. I teach it nationwide. And I teach it for free. So a lot of times I have to fly myself into Cleveland. Teach this class for free and it's continuing ed credit. So you get three credits or six credits as I speak about fire escapes. But some of these poor cities, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Boston, Los Angeles; it's the last thing you ever think about, how it's called the bastard child of egress.

Oh my gosh.

That's why it's called, out of sight, out of mind. Don't give it any money. Don't give it any paint. Don't give it any bolts. But then when it kills people, then they call me and I'm an expert witness on fire escape injuries and fatalities, and we sue the owners of a building who hope the insurance company covers it. And if they don't cover it, that building gets taken because somebody got hurt on the fire escape, whether it's a tenant or fireman.

You know, Cisco it’s interesting that we came to meet each other. When we were selecting our booth for Mighty Line, we saw that you guys were set up here, and I said, you know we need to be next to these folks because this is something that everyone needs to know. So, I'm so glad we got to learn more about this. And where can people go to learn more about what you do, and how do they get educated while your website, Tik Tok?

Tik TOK is if you want to see it in your city, if your fire escapes are safe or not safe. And your job is to call the landlord. Call the management company. And if they don't listen to you, call the fire department, call the building department and say, I don't think my fire escape is safe based on the little knowledge I have. It looks brown to me. Right? The second place is to go is to NationalFireEscapeAssociation.org. Go there, and all the classes we've ever taught to every fire official building efficient nationwide is there for free. You can watch and get to learn more and learn about all the codes. And that way you can watch just what your city is or is not learning, is or is not doing, about this law, which sadly just came into effect nationwide in 2022 in a lot of states.

You know, and there's got to be specific testing that's required that we can learn about on that website? Because I think most folks don't know how you even test a fire escape.

So there's two parts to it. So there's only three people that can inspect a fire escape. An engineer. It doesn't have to be structural. An architect. So they both have to be registered in your state. Then the third one is somebody that's approved by a city official, such as a fire escape inspector, such as a certified fire escape inspector. Do not go after these guys that are going to give you free estimates. Those are called “the welding witchdoctors.”

How do you get certified?

Well, the first step is you're already certified if you're registered in the state as an engineer, or you're registered in your state as an architect. The third acceptable to the building official has to be certified and sometimes by the National Fire Escape Association or the National Fire Escape Academy. You know what I'm saying? That's what, one of the things I found that to help get these people certified. But if you have some expertise in that field, so you could be a fire protection engineer with a certain knowledge that you've attained in fire escapes and you, too can inspect these fire escapes. Is there a national license for fire escape inspectors? There isn't. But that's the first step. You inspect your fire escapes first by one of these three people. Then it gets repaired while these three people watch them repair the fire escape. And then at the conclusion of the repair, there's a load test. And that's the physical putting on of weights on it. Sandbags, water bags. You know it's a hundred pounds per square foot. So a typical 5 by 5 platform takes 2,500 pounds of sand or water on it for a certain period of time [on top of the dead weight]; that's called a load test. And so that is the conclusion now, because most of the fire escapes I inspect are 75 to 125 years old. Never inspected.

Okay. So it sounds like a career opportunity for anyone looking to go into an interesting field. I'll bet you're looking for people?

We're looking for people.

Okay. So folks take a look at the National Fire Escape Association. Learn more from Cisco and his team. They've got a wonderful group here. Thanks so much for your time today, and we're going to feed you more folks, Cisco.

And we'll give them stickers while we're there.

Awesome. Stop by the booth if you're here at [the NFPA Expo]; 904 Mighty Line, and 902 National Fire Escape Association.

He'll send you over anyway, just in case. He's right next door.

Be safe. Be safe. Bye.

Notes:
In the earlier code editions (2018, 2021) The International Fire Code (IFC) 1104.16.5 required fire escape inspections by registered design professionals (or others acceptable to the fire code official) “... every 5 years.” The most recent IFC (2024 ed.) requires testing not less than “live-load plus 100 lbs./sq.ft.” though dropped the “... every 5 years" provision. The NFPA 101 Life Safety Code’s 2024 ed. Ch. 7 “Means of Egress” Sec. 7.2.8.6 “Materials and Strength” does not specify “... every 5 years,” but authorizes the AHJ to “… be permitted to approve any existing fire escape stair that has been shown by load test or other satisfactory evidence to have adequate strength.”

Many local administrative ordinances require fire escape load testing “... every 5 years” along with the submission of a test report for review and approval, that is often typically based upon the IFC load test criteria (e.g., Boston, Cleveland, Portland, etc.). However, the City of Tacoma’s fire department requires fire escape load testing of stairways and balconies with “200 lbs./sq.ft. plus dead loads” vs. the IFC minimum “100 lbs./sq.ft.” Be sure to check all applicable ordinances, codes, standards and regulations, and to involve only authorized registered professionals in accordance with applicable codes and standards.